looks like rendering adblockers extensions obsolete with manifest-v3 was not enough so now they try to implement DRM into the browser giving the ability to any website to refuse traffic to you if you don’t run a complaint browser ( cough…firefox )
here is an article in hacker news since i’m sure they can explain this to you better than i.
and also some github docs
Ad Blocking is cyber security
Every once in a while I help a family member or friend out with their machine and am stunned when I see the web without an adblocker. It honestly reminds me of the malicious early 2000s porn and “free downloads” sites… but it’s everywhere now, like cnn and eBay and shit. First thing I do is install Firefox and ublock origin, and mostly for their security.
Youtube has also been running basically porn ads on “for kids” youtube channels as well and my kindergarten aged niece and nephew have been exposed to that shit. Adblock is 100% cyber security AND for kids safety.
100% agree. The few times I have to turn off uBlock because it is breaking some obscure website it is always an awful experience. Auto-playing videos, ads taking up half the screen, and those annoying as fuck cookie banners. I can’t imagine using the internet without an ad/cookie blocker. I accidentally turned it off on Lemmy for a while and it was the only site that I didn’t immediately notice.
It’s always nice when you look at uBlock Origin and it says
connected: 1 out of 119/19 right here on lemmy.ca
Huh? When I visit lemmy.ca, it also shows me 1/1
Opening the debug console shows that it connects to other lemmies, like the originating one here, lemmy.dbzer0.com.
Yeah okay, that makes sense. Federated network with dozens of different servers and all that
I said this in another thread, but a lot of the internet is unusable without uBlock Origin IMO.
It’s the shadowy lands run by bots that only unsuspecting bots go to.
and am stunned when I see the web without an adblocker.
True, True, it’s damn near unusable. You take it for granted what a job your blocker is doing for you.
You remember browser toolbars? People would have 3 of them at once, having no clue where they got it from nor how to remove it.
Good times.I installed uBlock Origin on clients computers when I worked at Geek Squad, even.
It kinda makes sense. All the people who know better already use an ad blocker so they don’t know what it’s really like and all the people who don’t know to use an ad blocker don’t know any better and that’s just what the internet looks like.
What company was running those ads on “kids” channels?
The FBI recommends using an ad blocker: https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2022/PSA221221
Malvertising (a portmanteau of “malicious software (malware) advertising”) is the use of online advertising to spread malware.
It typically involves injecting malicious or malware-laden advertisements into legitimate online advertising networks and webpages.
Because advertising content can be inserted into high-profile and reputable websites, malvertising provides malefactors an opportunity to push their attacks to web users who might not otherwise see the ads, due to firewalls, more safety precautions, or the like.
Malvertising is “attractive to attackers because they ‘can be easily spread across a large number of legitimate websites without directly compromising those websites’.”Just as noscript and pop-up/new tab blockers are.
That’s the point ofc.
Quiet parts out loud.
A better quote
We need more browser options, not just Firefox and 20 versions of chrome.
If you have the funds, donate to Mozilla. They’re not only the main developers of the only major competing browser engine, but also do a lot of other good work. You can hope for others, but with Firefox only having single-digit usage share it needs all the help it can get.
This. I see a lot of talk about Firefox forks on Lemmy but at the end of the day we need Mozilla to to survive for other Firefox and their forks to continue
You can’t legally donate to Firefox, as it is developed by a Corp (Mozilla Corp.). Donations go to Mozilla Foundation, which does… other things with you money. In other words, your money don’t go towards FF development.
So, if you donate thinking that your money helps Firefox development, you’re doing it wrong.
To be fair, there are about 20 versions of Firefox too. It’s just that most of them aren’t there to Hoover up ad revenue.
I completely agree, but don’t forget that WebKit exists too on Mac and Linux with about the same market share as Firefox (at least based on w3school’s stats). Chrome/Blink dominate but all hope is not lost and there are more options, they’re just small. I think focusing on embracing Firefox/Gecko as it has so much momentum and community already is the most productive way forward though
The only reason WebKit has any market share left is because iOS/iPadOS forces it on their users even if you try to use other browser
Nope. I’ve used GNOME web before, and others as well.
A good project to support would be the Ladybird.
They don’t even have builds. How can we support tools the bulk of users can’t easily implement or recommend non technical people to try?
Definitely, oftentimes open source projects don’t make it easy for themselves
You can support by joining the project and helping them to fix issues. It’s a young project, but they’ve been progressing really fast. Andreas Kling is one of the original developers of Safari, and in the past years he’s been creating his own operating system (Serenity OS) and formed a team who’ve been doing their own JavaScript engine, web browser and a programming language together with the OS. It’s a really fascinating story and I give all the respect for them for doing this. This is the work we have to do if we want to beat Google from taking the internet. It’s us who need to step up and start fixing the internet.
https://awesomekling.github.io/Ladybird-a-new-cross-platform-browser-project/
I don’t disagree with you on alternatives but again it’s challenging for the technical folks amongst our peer groups to help adoption of an alternative if we can’t provide places for the folks we support to download the alternative and try it
There’s no way for any of my family or friends to understand how to build their own browser, let alone setup a WSL2 environment to make it work. Their eyes are going to glaze over at the thought then they’re going to go download something else.
That time is not yet. Give it a few years and if you’re willing, join the project to help. There is movement, it’s just about how can we help.
Nah that’s more of a spoiler vote. You need one large competitor to Chrime, not a bunch of small ones that can get wiped out
Google basically made it so that it takes a large company to compete with all the “”“web features”“” that they have, so good luck with that.
True, what we truly need and have the force to get behind with is an Alternate Internet, an Alternet of sorts. Something like Gopher, or Gemini.
I like what gemini is trying to accomplish but I think we need something closer to what the web WAS.
Idk about on Windows & macOS, but there are a lot of other options not based on Gecko (Firefox) or Blink (Chromium). Downside is that they don't have as many features or plugin support.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/List_of_applications#Web_browsers
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Google Chrome (v42.12.0183, MULTi5) [FitGirl Repack]
–>since everyone is confused about this i’m gonna try to explain as best as i could and also clearing some misconceptions:
1# why this is such a big deal ?
if this gets implemented AND it gets widely adopted websites now can refuse to give you content if you are running a non complied browser, remember those website that say “oh you are using an ad blocker so disable it to access our site” they can detect this by various methods but ultimately all of them rely on running a JavaScript into your browser. which you guessed it, its easy to modify and tamper with manually or using extensions
now what WEI-API does is that it can verify the integrity of the web page ( JavaScript/HTML/CSS has not been modified ) and even tell the website what extensions - ad blocker detected no content for you - you are using and what browser you are using - firefox or brave detected no content for you - and do not be fooled into thinking that this can be spoofed. and website owners who think that they are running a business not a charity will implement this.
2#will using firefox save me?
if this gets widely adopted and you inevitably encounter a website that require this ( for your job ,school or your bank ) you have no choice but to use chrome just like when your banking apps refuse to work because your phone is rooted which means that SAFETY-NET is broken
3#why this is a threat to begin with?
this is only viable if the web adopt it so why bother?, well guess what google is famous for making its services very easy to integrate and well documented just look on how easy it is to integrate google analytics and google adsense* into websites and how many of them use it in the internet.
4#what can we do to prevent this?
this is my personal opinion but i think we simply can’t, this not like the reddit incident were very large portion of the user base was upset most people don’t know/care/give-a-fuck about web technologies and how they work.
#and Finally “but google said they don’t plan to use this to fingerprint you (Device ID) or track your browser history or interfere with the work of extensions”
do you really believe that a company like google whose bread and butter is advertising would not make it easier for themselves, a company who has been exposed time and time again for lying and having ulterior motives ( you don’t need to look far just look into what manifest-v3 did )
I will happily stop visiting any website that demands I use an approved browser.
Stop using Google products I don’t know how else to fucking say it.
Chrome -> Firefox Drive -> sync or Dropbox or any number of options Sheets and productivity tools > libre office or Apache open office YouTube -> Invidious or even better, odysse Google search -> duck duck go, SearXNG, StartPage, etc Gmail -> not a ton of great options. I’d probably recommend proton mail but the FOSS email world is definitely lacking, or gets blocked or goes down, harder to self host etc.
helped with formatting:
Chrome -> Firefox
Drive -> sync or Dropbox or any number of options
Sheets and productivity tools > libre office or Apache open office
YouTube -> Invidious or even better, odysse
Google search -> duck duck go, SearXNG, StartPage, etc
Gmail -> not a ton of great options. I’d probably recommend proton mail but the FOSS email world is definitely lacking, or gets blocked or goes down, harder to self host etc.
And I agree for sure. In order I use firefox (and brave sometimes), Proton Drive, Apple Productivity suite (pages, numbers etc), and either startpage or qwant, and proton mail. I do still use use YouTube Premium, but the point is Google doesn’t need to have its fingers in every aspect of my digital life.
While I get your spirit… Dropbox belongs to google too 😂 they are everywhere! Worse than the plague.
For many people, Google controls the entire network stack from their ISP, router, OS, DNS, their browser, all the way down to the platform hosting the content they watch.
Google has captured such a wide part of the Internet that any changes they make will have at least a moderate effect on our lives. Even if we don’t use any Google services.
The only thing that can stop them is probably the EU at this point. And I’m sure Google has a plan for that.
They can’t have a plan for that. They have two options: conform or leave EU.
lol, just
become the governmentpay the EU.EU is widely adopting the policy of fining by a percentage of global revenue which is what hurts even the largest companies, precisely to avoid “just pay the EU”.
And what glorious percentage is that? 25% 30%? 35% And on what schedule? Weekly? Daily?
i didn’t write the quoted list, just helped the OP with his formatting. I use proton drive, not dropbox.
I had no idea Proton Drive was a thing. I’ll switch to it, Dropbox is becoming incredibly obnoxious with the advertising popups and notifications.
I’m not sure LibreOffice is a drop-in replacement for Google Docs if you need sharing, collaboration and built-in version control.
Yes, something like collabora would be a better fit, although I never managed to get an actual instance of the thing running.
Works quite well through nextcloud IME :)
Well I tried this and… I just can’t get to run properly. Tried docker, AIO, separate installs :(
I found that quite easy, for once: I have a bare NC instance and I installed 2 add-ons (the integration bits and the CODE server that IIRC drops an appimage of the actual collabora server). Unless you have hundreds of users, that’s about as much admin as you need :)
I’ll give it another try then, thanks !
YouTube -> Invidious or even better, odysse -> or even, even better, PeerTube
Nextcloud technically does much of what Drive does, but my instance is buggy lol
Still, costing me nothing to run for now, AWS 12 month free tier. Will move to a VPS somewhere not-aws before that’s over.
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Immich is getting pretty darn close, close enough that you could genuinely have a think about what features really matter to you, vs the cost of privacy lost continuing to use Google Photos.
ty for this rec! i have been searching for something like this passively for a while.
Yeah, me too. I’ve been on Photoprism for a while, and that got me out of Google Photos, but not my wife.
What annoys me about Photoprism is the long-promised multi-user feature was put behind a paid subscription. I was a paid Github supporter, and would’ve been happy to continue with my annual donation (like I do for other tech projects), but then they went the greedy ongoing sub route.
FYI, you need two new lines (hit Enter twice) to actually get a new line in Lemmy.
Two new lines One new line.
Can also add two spaces at the end of line to force line break
Is there a reason behind this?
It’s standard markdown afaik. Two new lines creates a new paragraphs, two spaces and one new line creates just a new line.
Markdown treats single newline breaks as being a line wrap in a long text flow
Because Reddit does it? 🤷♀️
Nah its part of the markdown specification
That’s actually a bit of a relief to learn. I didn’t want to believe it was simply because Lemmy was trying to copy Reddit, but I just didn’t know enough to see any other reason.
Proton mail for sure!! Great great great! Cant stop recomending
Yea i love Protonmail. I haven’t had one issue with it.
What’s the replacement for Android?
Linux, but that’s not a viable option. I would use degoogled Android OSs. GrapheneOS, CalyxOS, e/os, and LineageOS are some of the popular ones.
I use SailfishOS and while it’s more work, it’s viable.
Also correct here.
The 3 main have varying degrees of function vs security/privacy and should be researched.
Android, but the real one (AOSP, etc) that you can get with custom ROMs, not Google® Android©.
AOSP is a Google product.
That¿s why I said “the one you get from the custom ROMs”. Well, the ones that fork and maintain on their own anyway.
The other alternative honestly is Linux mobile, once it more properly launches.
Look, it’s an unpopular opinion and many will disagree with me, but while Apple does certain things to restrict you from customizing your experience, they’re doing far less to destroy the open Internet than Google. So if you need a fully featured OS (which degoogled custom Android ROMs might not be, if you need banking for an example), it’s still an alternative for now, until Linux mobile experience gets better.
On iOS, there’s no browser extensions (for e.g. ad blocking), no alternative browsers, and no FOSS apps of any kind. That platform is extremely hostile to the ideals of computing freedom.
Like I said, it’s a better (for privacy) alternative to stock Android when you need a fully functional operating system. If you can stand to lose the oppressive Google functionality, you can go degoogled Android or preferably Linux (if you don’t care about battery life or app availability).
Wait. Sync offers file storage? I thought it was just to sync up your Firefox sessions across multiple devices.
Or am I confusing services with similar names?
I think they’re referring to the storage service at sync.com, not Firefox Sync.
Correct
How do you like it? Would you prefer it over dropbox, or not really?
I’ve been migrating to sync from Dropbox after hearing too many reports of Dropbox scanning user content for things they deem objectionable. I like the end to end encryption, but I have found the mobile experience on iOS to be lacking. It seems to have trouble integrating with Files and uploading files directly via the iOS share menu. Annoying but not a dealbreaker.
I prefer it to drop box, it’s a better service and I believe not owned by Google like drop box it
Gawd damn, I didn’t know Google acquired Dropbox in 2010. Ok. Time to move.
But what makes Sync a better service? A better UI?
Question, I use Google docs a lot cause I like the sync and it’s convenient when I write something like a book on my computer and then can add more on my phone and it syncs. Does Apache open office do that? I would like to switch if all this chrome stuff is bad but I use all of it all the time
look into syncthing paired with local-first notes application (obsidian or similar), or simple text editor. work like a charm in my case.
Ok I really like Obsidian! The interface is really clean! I might still need to look for a proper word processor (I guess I could use libreoffice) but I also use geany as a notepad++ substitute and it’s really nice too. I still gotta look into setting up syncthing though
Alright, thanks, I’ll try those out!
https://cryptpad.fr is a potential option. You can also host it yourself if you don’t want to pay them for extra storage space.
Oh that looks neat! I’ll have to look into it, thanks!
I generally would recommend Libreoffice over AOO but not sure about cloud sync options
Interesting. Well, I did find Gnumeric in my search for a simple spreadsheet app for making flashcards with, so TIL something new I guess my “cloudsync” can be using syncthing or just backing up to a flash drive lol
I really really want to move from google workspace, google photos and google drive. I used it all to backup a 16TB archive, sharing photos with family and friends and keeping my personal files in the cloud and synched across computers. I used a Synology to backup the archive from the computer locally to the Synology and offsite to google drive. But here’s the thing, I’m a somewhat PC and Mac-savvy technical guy, but purely GUI. Is moving to Nextcloud on my synology going to be as easy as moving to google drive? I’m a little scared TBH. There are so many ways of installing next cloud and doing 3-2-1 backups and I don’t have time to handle a little error on a Synology destroying my whole workflow for days… Someone give me hope.
I like brave search because it uses its own index
Brave has done too many shady bullshit things and has thus completely lost my support and interest. I do not recommend them.
How is the worlds biggest ad distributor also the worlds biggest browser maker without it being an anti-trust violation?
Remember when browsers just browsed…I really want to push the What’s Cool! button
Holy cow im getting nostalgia and I wasn’t even alive when Netscape was a thing, I think…
Fuck I’m old.
Sorry.
To all the people who didn’t see the point in moving away from Chromium browsers, THIS IS THE POINT!
This is exactly why everyone should use fully idenpendted browser like Firefox
“Do no evil.” …unless it’s projected as profitable, in which case, evil that shit up!
They ditched the “don’t be evil” years ago. Now it’s “As many ads as possible”.
I hear that they can cover up to 80% of a user’s visual field without inducing seizures.
I understood that reference!
They stopped using that saying years ago
I see so many comments from people saying they’ll jump ship if Google adds this to Chrome. They’ll move over to Firefox right away. But the thing most people don’t know is one reason Google has such a broad reach is they make it so crazy easy to integrate their services for developers.
So, yes, users who dislike what they’re doing should stop using Google products if possible. But, more importantly, developers or project managers, etc. should all resist the urge to utilize this kind of feature even if it’s easy.
What do you mean? Gcloud is definitely not “easy” when compared to others like AWS. Also I think it’s common sense to avoid google products because they tend to abandon ship in a few years.
I completely agree.
Would you like to follow me on G+ ?
Google & Microsoft are famous for copying what all the other companies are doing and then letting it all die.
Hello from Zune land.I mean Google has very convenient libraries that developers can add to their apps/websites like libraries for ads, A/B testing, crash reporting, push notifications, etc. Even using one’s Google account for SSO in an app just leaks a tiny bit of data for Google to suck up. I think the average phone user is unaware of how even non-Google apps can have Google code, even for iOS. Obviously, this is worse for Android since Google Play Services is installed on almost all Android devices.
This kind of feature is likely to be cloud agnostic, so Gcloud vs AWS isn’t really what’s up for debate.
They’re likely referencing the ease of adding something like google analytics to a website, where you include a url in the code for a page and you’re done.
Users like visiting websites that are expensive to create and maintain, but they often want or need to do it without paying directly. These websites fund themselves with ads, but the advertisers can only afford to pay for humans to see the ads, rather than robots.
Won’t you think of the poor poor ad companies?
Time for me to start donating to Firefox. Need to do my part to make sure Chrome doesn’t complete its monopoly
Yet another vitally important front in the war on general purpose computing (it’s a short and important read imo)
Fuck Google, and fuck DRM.
