It’s true there’s a lot of unfinished apartments, and imo it’s true that’s a big problem (or a symptom of a larger issue). But I don’t think it’s unfinished apartments are a bigger problem than lack of home ownership in the West
Nobody can buy land in china, it is only leased from the government for up to 70 years for residential usage (less for other purposes). Calling the tofu-dreg building on top of this “owning a home” is disingenuous at best and deceitful at worst. Why do people buy homes anyway instead of renting? Because all other options to invest are even worse and it is literally their only option.
I hope you don’t tolerate how mega corps “sell” you shit like digital media or IoT devices only to later change the terms of sale and steal it back from you, because you never really owned it. Don’t tolerate the same shit if a government does it to you.
Government leasing land vs digital media licensing
These are not the same thing, not even close. Digital media can be copied endlessly basically for free, and IoT devices losing their functionality to a firmware update or loss of software support represents the labor and resources that went into making the device being wasted - but land is an eminently limited resource, and we have literally ten thousand years of experience with the negative externalities created by its private ownership. The only sane system of land management in the current economic paradigm is something like what China does, where land cannot be owned privately and is always under active management by a democratically-appointed body.
Let’s not pertend that this is because China has socialized housing. They used to do decades ago, but it has been abolished for a long time. Although they do have affordable housing program like most of the city in the U.S.
In fact, China has one of the highest home price to income ratio (ratio of median apartment prices to median familial disposable income, expressed as years of income) in the world: https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings_by_country.jsp . Chinese people will need 30 years of disposible income to purchase an apartment; compare to 3 in the U.S., 7 in Netherland, 11 in France, and 9 in U.K.
Apartments in Beijing can easily cost double than a major U.S. city, while people in Beijing earn half as much.
Here is a popular real estate website listing the previously-owned property (2bedroom between 90-120 m²) on the market in Beijing: https://m.ke.com/bj/ershoufang/l2a4 most of them are around 5000k RMB, which translates to 700k USD for 2b apartments.
On the other hand, Beijing median monthly salary is 1548 USD (https://teamedupchina.com/average-salary-in-beijing/#Beijing_Salary_Data_Zhilian_Zhaopin), which translates to 10$ per hour assuming a 5 day work week and 4 week work month.
The high home ownership rate is likely due to a mix of false report and saving culture. In China, parents typically have a good amount of saving to provide their child (singleton because one-child policy) a home upon their marriage etc. This also explains why Beijing rent price is much lower than major cities in the U.S., despite its high housing price.
Chinese people will need 30 years of disposible income to purchase an apartment; compare to 3 in the U.S.
Who can afford a condo with 3 years disposable income in the US? My spouse and I make above average money in a below average cost city and we couldn’t afford a condo here.
Honestly, I am quite surprised how low tankies are willing to go to defend China. As a Chinese, it is very disheartening to me that people have never experienced or seen the suffering of living under an authoritarian government, are more willing to blindly defend it
There are literally some “tankies” on hexbear that are in China and posting from China right now. @Flyberius@hexbear.net. There are some users here who are Chinese and grew up there (not sure if they’d want to be tagged though). There are journalists who decided to go live there in part because of how much more freedom they are afforded there, people like Ben Norton, who you would probably also label a “tankie.” All of whom can attest to how baseless and sinophobic all the fabricated “suffering of living under an authoritarian government” stories really are. We aren’t all just clueless westerners, but your assumption that we are is also telling.
There are certainly different people with different preferences, and most Chinese people are indeed fine with CCP. A dictatorship has an obvious need to maintain many nationalist, so it is not surprising that you can find Chinese who loves CCP.
Many people are more than willing to turn a blind eye on all the artists, journalist, and lawyer, who were arrested, since it has nothing to do when them. This is a emotional topics for me, because one of my highschool classmate has been seperated from her father, for he was advocating more transparent laws and enforcement.
Of course, you don’t need to believe me, or people on mastodon, or journalist from all “mainstream media”; and just trust people on hexbear. But that will likely be no different from people who only believe fox news and infowars.
There are certainly different people with different preferences, and most Chinese people are indeed fine with CCP. A dictatorship has an obvious need to maintain many nationalist, so it is not surprising that you can find Chinese who loves CCP.
Lol “it’s no surprise the vast majority of people approve of and appreciate their government, since a dictatorship has to be maintained.” Yeah, what an awful, terrible dictatorship that rules with such an iron fist that it forced the approval and support of over 90% of the population. Clearly, in any real democracy, everyone hates their government, like the in the US. You sinophobic liberals are such a transparent joke.
Many people are more than willing to turn a blind eye on all the artists, journalist, and lawyer, who were arrested, since it has nothing to do when them. This is a emotional topics for me, because one of my highschool classmate has been seperated from her father, for he was advocating more transparent laws and enforcement.
And the lead protesters in the US who advocated for… the state to stop murdering black people openly in the street were themselves murdered and disappeared. It’s an emotional topic for me since people I knew in school were beaten half to death and permanently blinded by the police. The US is an infinitely more heinous dictatorship than China, violently suppressing anyone it deems a threat, while pretending they have “freedom” because they don’t crack down on the ones that are of no threat.
There are plenty of Chinese mastodon instance. Go there talk to them and see what they think.
I don’t need to, I can and do talk to plenty of people from and currently in China. Even a few irl!
Of course, you don’t need to believe me, or people on mastodon, or journalist from all “mainstream media”; and just trust people on hexbear. But that will likely be no different from people who only believe fox news and infowars.
It’s not about trusting people on hexbear, it’s about trusting the population of China, which again has overwhelming support for the CPC. It’s also about being able to plainly see what the CPC does both domestically and internationally. I trust the Chinese people.
Honestly, I am quite surprised how low tankies are willing to go to defend China. As a Chinese, it is very disheartening to me that people have never experienced or seen the suffering of living under an authoritarian government, are more willing to blindly defend it, than having a intellectual discussion.
Compare the prison population of the US to China’s lol.
70% of Chinese Millennials are homeowners
China’s overall homeownership rates
Reached 90% in 2018
@Alsephina @Juice Isn’t their bigger problem having too many unfinished apartments? Many more than are needed.
(And are those rates including those who own apartments that will never be completed?)
It’s true there’s a lot of unfinished apartments, and imo it’s true that’s a big problem (or a symptom of a larger issue). But I don’t think it’s unfinished apartments are a bigger problem than lack of home ownership in the West
@OsrsNeedsF2P I meant a bigger problem in China
Nobody can buy land in china, it is only leased from the government for up to 70 years for residential usage (less for other purposes). Calling the tofu-dreg building on top of this “owning a home” is disingenuous at best and deceitful at worst. Why do people buy homes anyway instead of renting? Because all other options to invest are even worse and it is literally their only option.
I hope you don’t tolerate how mega corps “sell” you shit like digital media or IoT devices only to later change the terms of sale and steal it back from you, because you never really owned it. Don’t tolerate the same shit if a government does it to you.
These are not the same thing, not even close. Digital media can be copied endlessly basically for free, and IoT devices losing their functionality to a firmware update or loss of software support represents the labor and resources that went into making the device being wasted - but land is an eminently limited resource, and we have literally ten thousand years of experience with the negative externalities created by its private ownership. The only sane system of land management in the current economic paradigm is something like what China does, where land cannot be owned privately and is always under active management by a democratically-appointed body.
Let’s not pertend that this is because China has socialized housing. They used to do decades ago, but it has been abolished for a long time. Although they do have affordable housing program like most of the city in the U.S.
In fact, China has one of the highest home price to income ratio (ratio of median apartment prices to median familial disposable income, expressed as years of income) in the world: https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings_by_country.jsp . Chinese people will need 30 years of disposible income to purchase an apartment; compare to 3 in the U.S., 7 in Netherland, 11 in France, and 9 in U.K.
Apartments in Beijing can easily cost double than a major U.S. city, while people in Beijing earn half as much. Here is a popular real estate website listing the previously-owned property (2bedroom between 90-120 m²) on the market in Beijing: https://m.ke.com/bj/ershoufang/l2a4 most of them are around 5000k RMB, which translates to 700k USD for 2b apartments. On the other hand, Beijing median monthly salary is 1548 USD (https://teamedupchina.com/average-salary-in-beijing/#Beijing_Salary_Data_Zhilian_Zhaopin), which translates to 10$ per hour assuming a 5 day work week and 4 week work month.
The high home ownership rate is likely due to a mix of false report and saving culture. In China, parents typically have a good amount of saving to provide their child (singleton because one-child policy) a home upon their marriage etc. This also explains why Beijing rent price is much lower than major cities in the U.S., despite its high housing price.
Who can afford a condo with 3 years disposable income in the US? My spouse and I make above average money in a below average cost city and we couldn’t afford a condo here.
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Well ain’t that a shit definition then
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There are literally some “tankies” on hexbear that are in China and posting from China right now. @Flyberius@hexbear.net. There are some users here who are Chinese and grew up there (not sure if they’d want to be tagged though). There are journalists who decided to go live there in part because of how much more freedom they are afforded there, people like Ben Norton, who you would probably also label a “tankie.” All of whom can attest to how baseless and sinophobic all the fabricated “suffering of living under an authoritarian government” stories really are. We aren’t all just clueless westerners, but your assumption that we are is also telling.
I’m eating breakfast in Chengdu. I’m so oppressed right now.
There are certainly different people with different preferences, and most Chinese people are indeed fine with CCP. A dictatorship has an obvious need to maintain many nationalist, so it is not surprising that you can find Chinese who loves CCP.
Many people are more than willing to turn a blind eye on all the artists, journalist, and lawyer, who were arrested, since it has nothing to do when them. This is a emotional topics for me, because one of my highschool classmate has been seperated from her father, for he was advocating more transparent laws and enforcement.
There are plenty of Chinese mastodon instance, like https://douchi.space/explore, https://mstdn.moe/about, https://m.cmx.im/explore. Go there talk to them and see what they think.
Of course, you don’t need to believe me, or people on mastodon, or journalist from all “mainstream media”; and just trust people on hexbear. But that will likely be no different from people who only believe fox news and infowars.
Lol “it’s no surprise the vast majority of people approve of and appreciate their government, since a dictatorship has to be maintained.” Yeah, what an awful, terrible dictatorship that rules with such an iron fist that it forced the approval and support of over 90% of the population. Clearly, in any real democracy, everyone hates their government, like the in the US. You sinophobic liberals are such a transparent joke.
And the lead protesters in the US who advocated for… the state to stop murdering black people openly in the street were themselves murdered and disappeared. It’s an emotional topic for me since people I knew in school were beaten half to death and permanently blinded by the police. The US is an infinitely more heinous dictatorship than China, violently suppressing anyone it deems a threat, while pretending they have “freedom” because they don’t crack down on the ones that are of no threat.
I don’t need to, I can and do talk to plenty of people from and currently in China. Even a few irl!
It’s not about trusting people on hexbear, it’s about trusting the population of China, which again has overwhelming support for the CPC. It’s also about being able to plainly see what the CPC does both domestically and internationally. I trust the Chinese people.
Compare the prison population of the US to China’s lol.
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Looks like someone couldn’t handle some actual statistics when presented with them.
Also a housing bubble and real estate being one of the few investment vehicles available to regular chinese.