I think if you’re only interpreting things through your own preconcieved notions, you’re going to come to false conclusions like thinking leftists on Lemmy hate PSL and FRSO. That’s just one example, and is why you seem insistent on something I just don’t see.
Secondly, revolution needs mass support to be successful, it can’t just be from a tiny minority, otherwise the revolutionary government falls. That’s why coups don’t solve anything, but revolution creates lasting change.
I never said they hate those organizations. I have even reiterated what I meant about this, more than once. I said there are a lot of people on lemmy, and other leftist online spaces, that will shit on people bring up things like running candidates, or believing we can/need to win over the the populous, before revolt starts, which are core actions of those groups. Do you understand this? Also I feel this is a pot calling the kettle black scenario.
Historically revolutions have not had mass support.
Right here you say PSL and FRSO are mocked. I understand what you’re saying, I just disagree, and further revolutions historically have had mass support, you brought up completely unsourced numbers. Revolutionary governments have mass support as well.
I really don’t think we are going to convince each other of anything.
Right there I have said they have had THEIR EFFORTS mocked. Are you able to distinguish mocking an organization vs mocking the things they do without thought to organization, simply actions that are not agreed with, and how that can be said to be mocking the efforts of organizations that do them? It happens all the time. You also have not posted sources for you claims that revolutions have massive support.
Yeah, I think you are right here. Especially since you are still misreading one of the first things I said to you, I honestly do not think you operating completely in good faith because of this.
I understand what you’re saying, and I’m not misreading you. You say their efforts are mocked, but you don’t actually know what their efforts actually are to make that claim. I know that you’re trying to say people are being hypocritical by supporting PSL while disavowing their what their actual actions are when sepparated from that context, but you’ve got it flipped, people support their actual actions and that’s why they support them, and you’re confused on what they actually are.
Secondly, you had clear numbers, it shouldn’t be hard to find a source for them. Socialist countries have overwhelming support, polling is consistent, and most that lived in the USSR want it back. Revolution cannot succeed without overwhelming support of the masses.
I am operating in good faith, just because we seem to be at an impasse doesn’t mean either of us is bad-faith. Not all disagreements are a result of one party being bad-faith.
I didn’t say I suspected bad faith for disagreeing.
Revolutions are different than the governments they produces decades later. The Bolshevik revolution, for example, did not come anywhere close to overwhelming support when it was happening.
The October Revolution was supported by the many workers and peasants, they didn’t exactly hold a census beforehand but it only succeeded because of mass support.
I think if you’re only interpreting things through your own preconcieved notions, you’re going to come to false conclusions like thinking leftists on Lemmy hate PSL and FRSO. That’s just one example, and is why you seem insistent on something I just don’t see.
Secondly, revolution needs mass support to be successful, it can’t just be from a tiny minority, otherwise the revolutionary government falls. That’s why coups don’t solve anything, but revolution creates lasting change.
I never said they hate those organizations. I have even reiterated what I meant about this, more than once. I said there are a lot of people on lemmy, and other leftist online spaces, that will shit on people bring up things like running candidates, or believing we can/need to win over the the populous, before revolt starts, which are core actions of those groups. Do you understand this? Also I feel this is a pot calling the kettle black scenario.
Historically revolutions have not had mass support.
Right here you say PSL and FRSO are mocked. I understand what you’re saying, I just disagree, and further revolutions historically have had mass support, you brought up completely unsourced numbers. Revolutionary governments have mass support as well.
I really don’t think we are going to convince each other of anything.
Right there I have said they have had THEIR EFFORTS mocked. Are you able to distinguish mocking an organization vs mocking the things they do without thought to organization, simply actions that are not agreed with, and how that can be said to be mocking the efforts of organizations that do them? It happens all the time. You also have not posted sources for you claims that revolutions have massive support.
Yeah, I think you are right here. Especially since you are still misreading one of the first things I said to you, I honestly do not think you operating completely in good faith because of this.
I understand what you’re saying, and I’m not misreading you. You say their efforts are mocked, but you don’t actually know what their efforts actually are to make that claim. I know that you’re trying to say people are being hypocritical by supporting PSL while disavowing their what their actual actions are when sepparated from that context, but you’ve got it flipped, people support their actual actions and that’s why they support them, and you’re confused on what they actually are.
Secondly, you had clear numbers, it shouldn’t be hard to find a source for them. Socialist countries have overwhelming support, polling is consistent, and most that lived in the USSR want it back. Revolution cannot succeed without overwhelming support of the masses.
I am operating in good faith, just because we seem to be at an impasse doesn’t mean either of us is bad-faith. Not all disagreements are a result of one party being bad-faith.
I didn’t say I suspected bad faith for disagreeing.
Revolutions are different than the governments they produces decades later. The Bolshevik revolution, for example, did not come anywhere close to overwhelming support when it was happening.
The October Revolution was supported by the many workers and peasants, they didn’t exactly hold a census beforehand but it only succeeded because of mass support.