cross-posted from: https://lemmy.basedcount.com/post/114721
My humble takes on the most popular Lemmy instances, or “how to piss off the whole Fediverse with a single meme”.
Here are the links to each one of the mentioned instances:
Far Left Centre Left Centre Right Far Right Lemmygrad Exploding Heads Hexbear Lemmy.ml Lemmy.world Beehaw Pricefield Lemmy Based Count sh.itjust.works Blåhaj Lemmy Divisions by zero Lemmy NSFW Hack Liberty
The political compass isn’t real
abuse defed
Lol. How can you “abuse” defederation? Are instances not allowed to decide who they talk to?
The right likes to think that they have a right to push their ideas on you
The thing is that from what I can see they are not. If your instance doesn’t defederate from let’s say exploding heads or hexbear then people start with shaming you for that first and then defederating from your instance. So in this way no, they seem not allowed to decide who they talk to.
Well if you regularly hang out with Nazis, I wouldn’t want to hang out with you. That’s life
Now do a instance logo tier list
I can’t believe I keep seeing this slander of Blahaj. We federated with those tankie communities as an olive branch. And they defederated with us after it became clear we didn’t like them. We aren’t a bunch of safe space tenderqueers, we tried to make a difficult relationship work.
And Beehaw defederated because they needed more moderators / more moderation tools.
Do you understand other instances issues enough to make a meta meme?
Lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works I’d say are a little left? And exploding-heads, less authoritarian right, more boomer gab people instance with misused meme formats galore, totally unfun. Big R Republicans packed to the brim. Boring as fuck.
There’s not really a top right corner instance anymore, there used to be one, hosted at nobodyhasthe.biz. Those guys were what you’d expect, N word everywhere everything is about Jews chud memes black sun all of that shit.
If defederation is censorship then refusing to take a pamphlet from someone handing them out on the street is censorship
I think nobody has a problem with you not taking the pamphlet, but you telling me that I’m not allowed to take that pamphlet, there the problems start.
you telling me that I’m not allowed
You are not your Lemmy account, and you are specifically not one single Lemmy account. If you don’t like the policy of an instance, you can try to change it or go somewhere else. Ok right, in the attempt to influence policy, you can play the ‘you telling me that I’m not allowed’-card.
Now that I think about it, the most uncensored Lemmy experience is being logged out. Every content is visible, no middle man can hinder you to visit these sites. It’s a bit like when a public library decides to organize their books into separate rooms. Would you call that censorship because you have to walk between the rooms to access all the content?
Censorship would be fitting if certain content would be erased from the library. I think that’s only possible on Lemmy if all instances agree.
he’s right there. he has the pamphlets. he’s giving them away for free. it’s 100% available to anyone who wants it. no one is stopping you from doing anything, they’re just not helping.
It’s not true, they say of you take the pamphlet then I will never talk to you agan and will make sure you can’t talk to me either.
who is saying that? who is saying that if you have an account on a defederated instance that you can’t also have an account on their instance?
I think there is a misunderstanding here, I didn’t say that you can’t create a new instance or a new account on a different instance to technically go around the defederation (for a limited time). I also don’t understand what your point is, the people from exploding heads can do that too.
the misunderstanding is in that I don’t understand where defederating is in any way censorship, but everyone is treating it as though it’s censorship. Defederating is just refusing to help spread someone’s speech, which is perfectly fine and reasonable. The message I refuse to signal boost is still there, people can see it, they can even choose to boost it further if they want. The people who originate the message are not locked out of the instance that defederate them either. But everyone acts like this is the equivalent of putting a gun to someone’s head and demanding that they shut up and I’m honestly really confused about it.
It just amazes me that our little instance went from something for me to play with, to an instance at the centre of ongoing fedi drama, and the source of several memes.
Our instance fucking rules and offers the most interesting and diverse communities on Lemmy. Thank you for your efforts.
To be fair to the large number of blocked instances on the Beehaw blocklist, most of them are from a starter blocklist that’s been circulated through the fediverse of “These are skinhead and child sexual abuse material instances. Block them before they even try to federate.” I think the only true defederation controversy is with Lemmy.World and sh.itjust.works and that was a purely mechanical issue of “too much troll traffic all at once and no tools to surgically handle it rather than just burn down the whole thing”
I’m wondering what “over 400 blocked instances” means in practical terms. Most of us have no idea if 400 is a large or small number in relation to the size of the fediverse. Most of us don’t know how big those blocked instances are, or if they even exist anymore.
Mostly, as you explain, I don’t care about numbers if what they’re blocking is hatred and abuse. Maybe “over 400 blocked instances” is supposed to be a criticism, but to me, it sounds like the people running Beehaw are doing their jobs well.
That’s a fair concern. You can check the data for yourself on the awesome-lemmy-instances repository; alternatively I have made this tool to make the search more interactive and user friendly: defed.xyz.
Short answer to your question is: 410 is a lot. They are the second instance for number of defeds, only beaten by feddit.dk. Most big instances tend to have between 30 and 50 blocks, with the notable exception of sh.itjust.works which has only 5.
To give credit where credit is due, few of the instances blocked by beehaw actually run Lemmy and even fewer are active (2 or more monthly active users). This doesn’t change the fact that it’s a BIG number.
edit: pinging @Cube6392@beehaw.org as this partially answers their question.
It’s 10 times the number of instances that lemmy.ml blocks, if that helps.
Not really. How many users are on the blocked instances? How many of those instances have tried to federate with Beehaw? How active are the people on the blocked instances? How active are people not on those instances who do interact with them? A raw number of instances isn’t that useful to understanding the impact on the network graph
The problem with large blocking lists is that they can’t be easily audited. How do you know if there’s any legit website amongst 400 links?
Only needs will be able to see all instances and have a wide look at things. Omin users should need to “pick a side” and that sucks .
I’ve never seen Exploding Heads but I’ve heard things… It’s the only one shown on this chart I think I have any issue with, if what I’ve heard is true.
The entire bottom half though is like my whole shit.
I’m subscribed to !digitslfreedom@exploding-heads.com and haven’t seen any problems there, it’s kind of a normal Tech and privacy community, that’s why I didn’t de-federate from them. I probably blocked some users from there.
Obvious Beehaw bias but I don’t get the whole weirdness about defed. Like maybe it’s a hammer where some problems are screws, but elegant solutions are for people with VC funding.
It can seem authoritarian or an overreaction of you don’t know why the decision was made.
Once a critic learns that defederating was a last-choice decision reluctantly made because of inadequate mod tools and a small, overwhelmed staff, things make more sense. If they still want to complain after that, I just walk away. Sometimes people have already decided to be angry regardless of what the facts are, and debate never helps in those situations.
I just read that:
You see beehaw users complaining about not having access to !patientgamers@sh.itjust.works , because while there is !patientgamers@lemmy.world , it has two posts that are 2 months old
What’s the latest drama of Hexbear ? I’ve been on that site since before they were part of the fediverse, but had started to lose interest in it. Then I’ve joined Lemmy without knowing Hexbear was in the process of federating. Now I’m hesitating on which account to keep (I’m more on the communist side myself, albeit not to keen on the pro-Russian stance I sometimes saw over there).
I haven’t followed it thoroughly as I’m not particularly interested with the hexbear content, I think they opened federation (but only on allowlist) but as soon as they did so many of the big instances said “fuck no” and immediately defederated them. This includes lemmy.world, feddit.de, beehaw.org, lemmy.ca … list goes on.
- Lemmy.world announcement on the topic.
- List of instances that defederated hexbear: https://defed.xyz/check/hexbear.net
It’s funny because everything I heard about beehaw would make me put them in the authoritarian right category with we want your e-mail for registration, we defederate everything that we don’t like
I am gonna give a hot-take, but we need more conservative on the fediverse, of course I don’t talk about the nazi uncle who still say that During the war, German soldiers were well behave unlike the Americans but classic liberal who support people like Macron/Merkel/Von der leyen and other reasonable right-winger are people we can talk-with
I feel like they are near the Orange LibLeft quadrant: a liberal that actually ends up behaving in a somewhat authoritarian manner in enforcing their beliefs onto others for the sake of safety, diversity and so on.
Both beehaw and their admins are great and at the end of the day the beauty of the fediverse is that everyone can run their instance as they please. I just wish there was another way to fix this sort of probems without having to block 5k+ people from accessing your website.
I am gonna give a hot-take, but we need more conservative on the fediverse
100% agree. And no, this doesn’t mean Trump supporters. In fact it doesn’t even mean anything close to the American right. Other countries have reasonable and functioning centre-right parties and I’d love to have something like that on Lemmy.
