I bought a house a couple months ago and have been fighting water heater issues since day one. First it was the thermal overload. I figured that out and adjusted the thermostats. Then the breaker was tripping. Once we moved in and started using hot water more, the breaker started tripping less for whatever reason. Lately, it started tripping very frequently, and water stayed hot for way less time. So I decided it was time to truly investigate. I assumed it was a dead lower heating element.
I opened the breaker, closed the fill valve, and opened the drain. Once water stopped draining, I removed the wiring from the top element and removed it. Water came out.
WTF, this should be drained… I shoved it back in to plug the hole and investigated the drain. I got my oil pan out and straightened a wire hanger and shoved it in there, ready to catch whatever came out.
I was not prepared for this. So much goddamn scale. I don’t think this water heater has ever been flushed. I’m still hard at work, but I’m not exaggerating when I say that I’ve been working for hours to get this shit out. There was scale and brine sludge up to the lower element, which had corroded it apart. That’s like a foot of this shit.
New elements are in and wired up (I found a pack of two elements and two thermostats for only like $35) and I’m continuously filling and draining while alternating between using the wire hanger and a small pipe cleaner to fuck the drain hole.
I’ve never looked forward to a hot shower more than I do right now.
Edit:
My wife cooked a delicious steak, potatoes, and asparagus dinner, paired with a nice Cabernet Sauvignon. I took 400mg ibuprofen for my back and then enjoyed an aged, cold Mad Elf Ale in a hot shower. The breaker has not tripped. I’ll call this a success. I didn’t fully flush all the crap out because I ran out of time, but I’ll plan on doing a monthly flush until the chunks stop coming, and then I’m thinking a semiannual PM to flush it unless somebody recommends otherwise? I’m gonna also buy a new magnesium anode rod and replace the existing one within the year because it doesn’t look like this one has ever been replaced. Magnesium because I’m on a water softener and I plan to have all of the hardness out of the heater soon enough, so hardness shouldn’t be an issue.
I’ve been working installing and servicing water heaters for the last 2 months, so I have a little knowledge to share. I’m still learning so I may get some things wrong.
We use a transfer pump to drain tanks because gravity draining is super slow and will become even less effective as the water level drops, especially when there is also sediment plugging things up. In both cases you need to let air into the tank so a vacuum isn’t created. You can do this by opening a hot water tap somewhere in the house or by flipping the lever on top of the pressure relief valve. You might have a vacuum breaker on the cold water line above the tank, but I’m not sure how well that can supply air to the top of the tank as the water level drops. I would use one of the other options instead of relying on that.
You say you’ve installed the new elements, but are still trying to remove the sediment through the drain valve? Why not get the water level down and use a shop vac through the element holes?
I’m assuming the tank is fairly old if it has sediment like you describe. Around here homeowners insurance will tell you to change them every 15 years. If an old tank leaks and the water destroys anything in your home it may not be covered. If your tank is in rough shape you’d probably want to change it proactively anyway, they will fail eventually.
A note on changing the temperature setting of the thermostats. You’re not supposed to tamper with them. The ones I install are set to 140°F. I’ve been told this is a WHO standard to ensure nothing can grow in the tank. Aside from that, by lowering the temperature you are just decreasing the amount of hot water that’s available and you will run out quicker.
I could probably go on, but this is already information overload lol.
EDIT: typo
I appreciate the info!
I opened hot taps on the floor above to break vacuum. My wife had questions about the sounds she was hearing and I compared it to putting your thumb on the top of a straw to hold liquid in the straw; I just took the figurative thumb off the top of the figurative straw to drain it.
I don’t have a shop vac (yet). I’m a new homeowner and have bought plenty of new things lately and wasn’t in the mood to go to the store in the middle of what I was dealing with, so I just stirred up and drained the bits I saw through the element hole. I didn’t know just how much it was until I’d already been at it for a long while anyway lol.
The house is only about 7 years old, and I’m assuming the water heater is too. There’s a water softener attached, but I bet it’s a new addition they put in in response to the hardness they were growing in the water heater.
I had googled thermostat settings and was mostly seeing about 125° as the recommended temp, and the thermostats I bought were factory set to 120 and the manual recommended against raising it. Now I know I can bump mine up a touch if I feel like it!
I’m a power plant operator with a background in water chemistry. I was uniquely prepared to understand this situation, but not as well equipped as you would’ve been lol.
Sounds like you had a good idea of what you were doing. I suppose I was making too many assumptions after reading your initial post! As long as you got the job done.
With a 7 year old heater and that much sediment/deposit it’s definitely water quality. Where I am water heaters can run for 15 years on city water without a flush. I know there are many types of water treatment options for different scenarios, but that’s about the extent of my knowledge. Luckily, it sounds like that’s your area of expertise.
The 140°F setting is coming from memory so it’s possible that I’m off or that it isn’t a universal setting. I would tend to stick with the manufacturer’s recommendations. I know it’s possible to buy higher temperature rated thermostats then the ones we use though.
I don’t know how equipped I would’ve been, I’m still just a helper lol.
Congats and good luck with the new home too!
EDIT: Just checked the spec sheet of the water heater brand I install. The Canadian models are set to 140°F, but the American ones are set to 125°F. I wonder why there are different standards?
140F is fast scalding temperature, aka it can cause 1st degree burns especially to infants, toddlers or elderly on contact.
125F is still hot but does not cause burns on contact.
If you have small children or elderly who are going to be using the water, use the lower temp. If your household is all adults, you can go with the higher one.
https://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Scalding_Temperatures.php
Yeah I’ve come across a number of homes where people have turned the temperature down for children and the elderly. The proper thing to do is add a mixing valve that adds some cold water to the hot once it leaves the tank. That way you can maintain the temperature at 140°F, which the source in the other reply identifies as the proper temperature to prevent Legionella.
Proper thing to do is to require an integrated mixing valve on the tank itself that cannot be easily bypassed by DIY’ers or shithead landlords looking to save a buck.
I just added a mixing valve above my tank. My wife and teenager were having too many fights over showering time. 140F provides a lot longer showers.
However if I sell or rent out the place in the U.S. I have to set the tank to 120F based upon the current laws.
https://preventlegionnaires.org/legionella-temperature-chart-explained/
https://inspectapedia.com/plumbing/Hot_Water_Temperature_Laws.php
The U.S. law is to set it at 120F.
The risk of scalding is higher than the risk of legionella growth in a hot water tank. Especially if you are on treated municipal water systems.
From that link, most of what refers to 120 is at the tap. Most hot water tanks either have a mixing valve so the water leaving is 120 but you store it at 140 in the tank, or there is a separate mixing valve elsewhere. If you read further down, there are direct references to storing at 140 and dispensing at 120. There’s also a complete section on legionaires elsewhere on that site that discusses it.
Hi. You seem knowledgeable so I hope you don’t mind if I ask a couple of questions.
I purchased a new electric water heater a little over 1 year ago. The temp by default was set bizarrely low to me…I think like 120-125F. The water was simply lukewarm to me and I read online that the temp it was set to was not high enough to kill certain pathogens, so I turned it up a bunch. I think initially I decided to go with 150F but then turned it down to 145F after a while. The heater also encourages you to turn down the temp to a crazy low level if you know you will be away for a while…I decided to never use such a feature because I am not interested in breeding pathogens.
Anyway, after only a little over one year, one of the heating elements failed in it. Luckily, the company agreed that this would be covered under warranty. A tech came out and replaced it for me and showed me how corroded the component looked.
I asked him why it failed so prematurely and he gave two reasons for me.
Yearly maintenance had not yet been performed which supposedly caused excessive sediment buildup. I didn’t like this answer because it’s not like I had been running it for 5 years when this happened. It was only 1.5 years old. I have never heard of a water heater failing for not following the exact one yearly maintenance schedule to the exact date. This sounded odd to me… especially since I’ve lived in apartment complexes who fail to do any maintenance on them for years and this doesn’t occur. Does this theory make sense?
The temp was set too high. When the tech arrived, he said 145F was way too hot which I thought was bizarre to me. He set the temp to 140F and said it should prob be ok now. I don’t get how a difference in only 5 degrees would cause such a catastrophy premature failure of the heating element. Are some modern water heaters just build like shit and not actually meant to be run at temps that destroy pathogens?
Do you think there’s anything else I can do to prevent component failure like that? I’m not sure if maybe I have hard water and if that might have contributed? If I do, how would I fix that? Thanks!
I’ll try and explain what I can, but take it with a grain of salt since I’m far from an expert.
I’m in Canada where water heaters are required to be set at 140°F by code. I’m just learning from this thread that in the US the temperature setting required on water heaters is lower for some reason, which seems at odds with preventing Legionella bacteria from growing. The manufacturer of the water heaters I install produces them for both America and Canada. The only difference I can see from the website is the thermostats are set at a lower temperature for the American ones. I don’t imagine running your specific tank at a higher temperature would matter either. I believe all electric water heaters are just glass lined steel tanks with the elements and fittings connected. Nothing that stands out as something that a little more heat would cause to fail.
With your tank only being a year and a half old I don’t see how maintenance could have prevented that element failing. It sounds to me like you just got a bad element from the manufacturer. They are a relatively cheap mass produced part so some duds would be expected. The good news is they won’t break the bank should you need to replace one again. There are water heaters of varying quality too, so I imagine cheaper ones would tend to use cheaper components.
If you have really bad water and there was lots of minerals settled in the tank (like up to the bottom element) then you might want to look at water treatment options, which would start with a water test to know what you’re even dealing with. I can’t give any advice in that department though.
Hope that gives more answers than questions lol.
Thanks for the reassurance in finding out that it shouldn’t be harming the tank/elements/etc and for not being an asshole about it. When I had initially researched it, I was also reading about legionella and I found it incredibly odd how the tank wanted me to have it set to a level which wouldn’t destroy the pathogen. Incredibly bizarre how it’s like that here in the States. I guess people are more concerned with potential scald risk of unsupervised children (of which I have none) over controlling a deadly pathogen.
Some others suggested I test my water as well which is definitely worth considering.
But you know…one of the things I’m remembering is that upon initial install of the heater, the techs had a hell of a time with the thing. They were struggling with both the tank and the main water shutoff for some time and eventually the shutoff broke, stuck in the “off” position and had to be repaired at a later date.
It was the upper element that failed, which from reading online can occur if the elements are turned on prior to the tank being filled all the way. I’m wondering if that’s maybe what happened due to the whole debacle that ensues.
Thing is that is that if it were a “dry fire”, I would think that the element would have failed immediately and not 1.5 years later. Idk.
I’m finding the American regulations bizarre as well.
Yeah, the top element failing is less common. I suppose it could have been a dry firing and it just held on until recently. Whether it’s that or a defect, the fact that it’s been changed means that will likely be the end of your troubles. If you don’t have problems with the water already you probably don’t have to worry.
140F is the golden standard for temperature setting on water heaters. Not sure why you think it needs to be set any higher for it to kill pathogens. Anyway a quick google search is all you need to educate yourself on this one.
The reason you don’t go higher than this is for safety reasons so you’re not burning yourself with hot water. With that said setting the temp a little higher won’t kill your water heater.
As for sediment this depends entirely on your water. Get it tested if you have to. Or get a whole house water filter. It could be you have a lot of sediment in your water source and you have to take protective maintenance to deal with it. Not everyone does this because not everyone has high sediment in their water. This isn’t great for your water heater but it won’t kill it in one year.
Sounds to me like you bought a shit water heater from a shit company and they don’t want to deal with it. Is there a warrenty?
???
Not sure why you’re telling me to “Google it”. I said that the heater was by default set to a very low temp, something like 120F, and the manual actually encouraged you to set it even lower.
I am the one who turned it up to 145F to kill pathogens after “googling it” and because the water had a bit of a smell to it at the time. I’m comfortable with the tech turning it down to 140F. Didn’t say that I wasn’t.
I’m just wondering if it’s still going to somehow break prematurely again because a 5 degree difference doesn’t seem that huge to me.
If setting the temp “too high” wasn’t what killed the water heater, then I’d like to know what did actually kill it so that I can help prevent it in the future.
The tech repaired it under warranty. I didn’t pay anything for them to fix it.
5F high isn’t significant, so idk why the attitude on the response you were given. It would overshoot from hysteresis at least that much between large refills.
As for why it failed, I would get a water test done and see how hard your supply is and if getting a softener is worthwhile. I’d also check the anode fairly frequently, but I’m with you, 1.5 years is not long enough to have worried about any of that. I’d say you had a poor element or that supplier just uses shitty elements to start with.