Some of the LinkedIn Responses are direct and on-point, and also hilariously/depressingly based depending on how you look at it:

EDIT: In hindsight, I think I should’ve looked into posting this in a different community… It’s closer to a silly “innovation”… soo… is this considered FUD? I also don’t support smoking or vaping, especially among kids. Original title had “privacy-violating” before the “solution”.

  • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    2 months ago

    It technically is a kind of steam in fact, actually. Even with drugs involved.

    I think it’s literally almost the same shit that’s in fog machines, juice is PG, VG, Flavoring, and Nic, fog machines are (iirc) PG, VG, water, maybe essential oils for smell. You don’t have to use USP food grade VG/PG for the fog though.

    • Dasus@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Steam is the hot gas that is produced when water is boiled. It’s also completely see through, ie, invisible.

      That is not what the vapes produce. It’s a water vapor. That’s why they’re called “vaporisers” and not “steamers”.

      • xthexder@l.sw0.com
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        2 months ago

        I don’t think there’s a need to so pedantic here. Water vapor is the visible part of steam, and for the purposes of this discussion, we’re talking about boiling liquids, so I don’t think there was any miscommunication by using the word “steam”

        • Dasus@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Ah, so you don’t understand the misunderstanding, or you’re purposefully using an illfitting word.

          Vaporisers produce vapour.

          VAPOUR:

          Dictionary

          Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

          noun

          a substance diffused or suspended in the air, especially one normally liquid or solid.

          "dense clouds of smoke and toxic vapour

          Water vapor is the visible part of steam, and for the purposes of this discussion, we’re talking about boiling liquids

          There’s no visible part of steam, despite colloquially people sometimes using language in a way that might make you think there is.

          So why would you insist on using the wrong word after being corrected? (That’s a rhetoric question, because I already know the answer.)

          • xthexder@l.sw0.com
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            2 months ago

            I understand what you mean. Water vapour (i.e. clouds, fog, the visible part of what comes from boiling water which any normal person would call steam) vs Gaseous water (i.e. most of the atmosphere, and the non-visible part of boiling water also called steam).

            Vapes work by boiling PG/VG which starts as a liquid (i.e. the juice), and generates both vapourized and gaseous PG/VG. If it was water, any normal person would consider this steam. This isn’t a chemistry or physics class.

            • Dasus@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              any normal person would consider this steam. This isn’t a chemistry or physics class.

              Just because you didn’t pay attention in physics in basic education doesn’t mean no-one did.

              When is the last time you heard someone refer to someone’s vape productions as “steam” in real life? “Goddamn vapers steaming all over”?

              Vapour and steam are different, because you don’t need 100c for water vapour. Ever heard of clouds? Mist? Fog? None of those are steam, none of those are 100 degrees Celsius, but they are all water vapour.

              That’s what vaporisers produce.

              https://www.reddit.com/r/chemistry/s/lNzhmtSLVW

    • xthexder@l.sw0.com
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      2 months ago

      I’m getting a lot of downvotes, and maybe I’m wrong about what kinds of vapes kids are using? Obviously if they’re using nicotine vapes, that’s bad and chemically addictive.
      But I don’t have a problem with kids vaping the drug-free, flavored juice. It can be habit forming, but so can fidget spinners. As long as it’s not actually dangerous then I don’t really care.

      • ObsidianZed@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Regardless of whether there is nicotine or THC, or whatever drug of choice in the vape, studies have shown that vaping is dangerous.

        • Dasus@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Ah, finally, there’s actual studies showing actual dangers, and not just manufactured bullshit from the cases where bad regulation lead to people vaping acetate E? Can you please link me those studies so I can use link them forwards?

            • Dasus@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Not readable from EU unless I decide my privacy and data don’t matter at all, which I won’t be doing.

                • Dasus@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  Thanks.

                  But again, that’s mostly about the flavourings, and the flavourings found specifically in US markets. So that’s more like “the US regulatory framework needs work” and less “vaping is dangerous”.

                  Taking a hit from a vape that has no flavourings or nicotine is essentially exactly the same as taking a breath on a dancefloor in a club when the fog-machine is blowing clouds. Literally the same process, just nearer your mouth and smaller.

                  That article even says

                  *“While there’s little research on the side effects of vaping CBD, some general side effects — which tend to be mild — of CBD use include: irritability, fatigue, nausea and diarrhea.”

                  And that’s pretty ridiculous.

            • Dasus@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Ugh, that’s no good! It doesn’t say what you think it does. It shows that they are safe, not that they are harmful.

              For this study the team included 30 youths aged between 21 and 30 years between 2015 and 2017. They did not have a history of traditional smoking or e-cigarettes.

              ^ Small sampling.

              The participants were divided into two groups – one of the groups was a control group while the other was asked to use e-cigarettes at least twice a day taking 20 puffs during an hour at one time. To measure the puff count, the refills given to the users had LED screens with a puff counter. The e-cigarette refills used contained 50% propylene glycol (PG) and 50% vegetable glycerine (VG) and no nicotine or flavours. The study duration was for one month.

              For all the participants, a bronchoscopy was performed at the start of the study and again five weeks after. The lung tissues, bronchi and the lung health were recorded at these sessions. The team wrote, “Inflammatory cell counts and cytokines were determined in bronchoalveolar lavage (BAL) fluids. Genome-wide expression, microRNA, and mRNA were determined from bronchial epithelial cells.”

              Results revealed that there was no significant difference in levels of inflammatory cells among the e-cigarette users and the control group.

              No difference in between the control group and the vapers?

              So I don’t know if you’ve mistakenly been sharing that, but it supports the opposite of what I gather is your view on the matter. I know it might not seem like that if you only read the headline, but I tend to actually read the articles and studies I link myself. You know, to avoid awkward things like this.

        • xthexder@l.sw0.com
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          2 months ago

          If you’d like to point me at some studies go ahead. The only dangerous cases I’ve heard about were black market vapes that had other contaminants in them. It’s been very hard to find reliable studies because most I’ve seen are self-reported using the entirely generic term “vaping” without any qualifiers on the kind.

          • Ledivin@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            The other risk is that black market cartridges have absolutely flooded the market, even getting mixed in with legitimate stock.

            • xthexder@l.sw0.com
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              2 months ago

              That’s certainly a problem. It’s one of the big reasons I think THC vapes should be both legal and regulated. In the states were it is legal, there’s strict inventory tracking every step of the way.

              Admittedly it’s a lot harder to get people on board with regulating drug-free vapes, but I think it would be a good idea to have guarantees about what you’re consuming just like food.

            • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              2 months ago

              The black market carts in question were specifically weed vapes, not nicotine vapes, which are actually more different than you may think. Not only was that not a problem with nic vapes ever, it hasn’t been a problem with homemade weed carts since that one incident (which IIRC was caused by one singular dumbass in WI or MN) either.

              There still are “black market carts” for both weed and nic, but they’ve learned not to use vitamin a and are now mostly just regular ol’ knockoffs.

              That said however, that’s why it’s always better to use a refillable vape with a bottle of juice over a disposable, they usually don’t counterfeit bottles opting instead for dispos, and even if they did it’s easy to make your own juice so you know what you put inside.

            • xthexder@l.sw0.com
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              2 months ago

              Well, I’m impressed they actually did test JUST the vape liquid, even though they’re still calling them e-cigs.

              Quoting from the journal itself:

              There were no significant differences in changes of BAL inflammatory cell counts or cytokines between baseline and follow-up, comparing the control and e-cig groups. However, in the intervention but not the control group, change in urinary PG as a marker of e-cig use and inhalation was significantly correlated with change in cell counts (cell concentrations, macrophages, and lymphocytes) and cytokines (IL8, IL13, and TNFα), although the absolute magnitude of changes was small. There were no significant changes in mRNA or miRNA gene expression. Although limited by study size and duration, this is the first experimental demonstration of an impact of e-cig use on inflammation in the human lung among never-smokers.

              The way I read this, it seems like there’s a small correlation with inflammation, but there’s no measurable risk of developing lung cancer from it (they were doing cancer research after all). Personally for an adult, I feel like “inflammation” is kind of a nothingburger, just stop vaping for a while and you’ll be fine. But for kids developing habits, I can understand the concern.

            • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              2 months ago

              twice a day for just a month

              It’s empirical, but I’ve been vaping steadily all day every day since I switched from my 2 pack a day newport habit around 2013ish, give or take a year. Last time I went to the doctor he said I had the healthiest lungs he’d seen in a while.

              I was as surprised as you are, frankly. Mostly because of the ports in the past but I guess it’s been long enough since then to heal up my surfboard lung. I mean I did notice marked improvement in my ability to breathe about a month or two into the switch, and my ability to smell things came back shortly thereafter, and then the doc visit was years after that, so maybe I shouldn’t have been surprised but I digress. In any case 2x daily for a month is pussy numbers, gotta bump those up, try 200 times a day for 10yr and your doc will say your lungs look great if they’re anything like mine.

            • xthexder@l.sw0.com
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              2 months ago

              Our data suggest that the flavorings used in e-juices can trigger an inflammatory response in monocytes, mediated by ROS production, providing insights into potential pulmonary toxicity and tissue damage in e-cigarette users.

              Well, I guess that’s a point against flavored vapes. I really wish there were more studies, because presumably not all flavorings would have the same effect. A comparison with unflavored e-juice would have been great.

      • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        2 months ago

        Honestly, I don’t have much of a problem with them even vaping nicotine, especially once we’re talking high school (ages 14-18.) They’re already not allowed to buy it, that’s enough. Sure, sometimes they’ll evade the law and get it, they’ll do it with white claws too, should we ban those? No, and you’d be hard pressed to find some teetotaler to say “yes” to that, but for some reason that goes right out the window when it’s not “the thing they did as kids” but “the new thing they don’t understand.”

        I’d be willing to bet flavored alcohol is more damaging to a young brain, more addictive (or at least on par) with nicotine, and what’s more you can actually die from alcohol (and benzo, which the kids are getting too btw, very illegally) withdrawals, but are we banning Ciroc and Xanax and applying the flavor ban logic unilaterally or are we just singling out the vapes because the big pharma and tobacco lobbies successfully propagandized people into doing their bidding in a war against the most effective smoking cessation method on record to date?