It is a commonly held belief that cars bring freedom and independence, but the reality may be the opposite. Car dependent cities are Orwellian in many aspect...
Right, leave it to our very efficient and trustworthy governments to create non restrictive 15 min cities that everyone will enjoy lol. What could go wrong?
This ideology could be astroturfed fossil fuel propaganda, but electric cars are being mandated in most countries. Fossil fuel corps won't hold on to a battle they're already losing.
The 15 min city "conspiracy theory" comes from people not wanting government over reach, especially since these govs are considering centralized digital currencies. This needs to be addressed.
Otherwise we're going to trade one dystopia for another.
The 15 minute cities conspiracy theory came from covid deniers who, when it became clear that governments weren't trying to instate perpetual lockdowns, needed a new thing to latch on to and came up with the idea of "climate lockdowns".
The actual 15 minutes cities idea is literally just to have the things you need daily within a 15 minute walk of your home. It's pretty sensible and not harmful to your mobility at all. But now the guy that came up with the idea gets death threats because of people spreading this bullshit.
Most things aren't created out of malice, like the 15 min city idea. Communism was created in the same light, people trying to come up with a better system.
If we don't do these kinds of things very carefully though, it will be exploited. Obviously death threats aren't the answer, but there is legit cause for concern here
It seems that I could only find about 18 countries with mandates. That hardly accounts for most of them. There have been an increasing effort to make them but that doesn't really show that fossil fuel companies are in a losing battle. If anything, they've gone up.
I don't see how the conspiracy, which is what is is, has anything to do with government overreach and digital currencies. The conspiracies usually go into weird territory about being cut off from using your car or similar nonsense. Creating a walkable city is really very easy to do once you weed out the political roadblocks, which is of course much easier said than done. The end result wouldn't be limiting people's movement. If anything it would be expanding it when done right.
You do have a point that it can be nearly impossible depending on the country or the city and how much of a grip corporate interests have. My own country has done pretty well with what you might call "15 minute cities." It probably helps that local government or the cities that built the way they are don't have a strong multinational presence in them.
Would those 18 countries be considered "first world"? Car manufacturers don't have the capacity to make a different vehicle for every country, it's operated more by continents with a couple exceptions. So a few large economies kind of get to decide for everyone.
Our older vehicles often end up in poorer countries. I'd actually never thought about this implication before, but those poorer countries will struggle to get any electric infrastructure up and might be worse off. Hopefully not.
The 15 min city idea doesn't have good publicity, especially when you see Shanghai attempting it with their social credit system.
Ultimately, we need a way to regulate the regulators, without restricting peoples movement or current freedoms. I think we both agree on this. I'm all for a greener, less congested cities if it can be done, but it needs to be a careful transition period with intensive, neutral, and transparent planning so we don't end up with tyrants running the show. I still don't think cars are the enemy here though.
The solution to car dependence is to depend on another corporation gate keeping the cars?
Help me unsee the irony here
The solution is in the video… It's walkable, cycle-able cities with good public transport.
Right, leave it to our very efficient and trustworthy governments to create non restrictive 15 min cities that everyone will enjoy lol. What could go wrong?
lmao nice conspiracy theory
I'll relieve you of this debate so you can return to your regularly scheduled echo chamber time. Sorry to disturb.
I'd be happy to continue to discuss this with you, but please keep your fossil fuel funded conspiracy nonsense out of it.
This ideology could be astroturfed fossil fuel propaganda, but electric cars are being mandated in most countries. Fossil fuel corps won't hold on to a battle they're already losing.
The 15 min city "conspiracy theory" comes from people not wanting government over reach, especially since these govs are considering centralized digital currencies. This needs to be addressed.
Otherwise we're going to trade one dystopia for another.
The 15 minute cities conspiracy theory came from covid deniers who, when it became clear that governments weren't trying to instate perpetual lockdowns, needed a new thing to latch on to and came up with the idea of "climate lockdowns".
The actual 15 minutes cities idea is literally just to have the things you need daily within a 15 minute walk of your home. It's pretty sensible and not harmful to your mobility at all. But now the guy that came up with the idea gets death threats because of people spreading this bullshit.
@mondoman712 @Shake747
#StocasticTerrorism
Most things aren't created out of malice, like the 15 min city idea. Communism was created in the same light, people trying to come up with a better system.
If we don't do these kinds of things very carefully though, it will be exploited. Obviously death threats aren't the answer, but there is legit cause for concern here
It seems that I could only find about 18 countries with mandates. That hardly accounts for most of them. There have been an increasing effort to make them but that doesn't really show that fossil fuel companies are in a losing battle. If anything, they've gone up.
I don't see how the conspiracy, which is what is is, has anything to do with government overreach and digital currencies. The conspiracies usually go into weird territory about being cut off from using your car or similar nonsense. Creating a walkable city is really very easy to do once you weed out the political roadblocks, which is of course much easier said than done. The end result wouldn't be limiting people's movement. If anything it would be expanding it when done right.
You do have a point that it can be nearly impossible depending on the country or the city and how much of a grip corporate interests have. My own country has done pretty well with what you might call "15 minute cities." It probably helps that local government or the cities that built the way they are don't have a strong multinational presence in them.
Would those 18 countries be considered "first world"? Car manufacturers don't have the capacity to make a different vehicle for every country, it's operated more by continents with a couple exceptions. So a few large economies kind of get to decide for everyone.
Our older vehicles often end up in poorer countries. I'd actually never thought about this implication before, but those poorer countries will struggle to get any electric infrastructure up and might be worse off. Hopefully not.
The 15 min city idea doesn't have good publicity, especially when you see Shanghai attempting it with their social credit system.
Ultimately, we need a way to regulate the regulators, without restricting peoples movement or current freedoms. I think we both agree on this. I'm all for a greener, less congested cities if it can be done, but it needs to be a careful transition period with intensive, neutral, and transparent planning so we don't end up with tyrants running the show. I still don't think cars are the enemy here though.
what's that got to do with anything?
