carl_marks[use name]

Your questions doesn’t make sense, unless you consider US southern states in the US to be occupied as well

Do you consider southern states in the US occupied or a part of the US?

Can you name the countries that recognize Taiwan?

You can stop, I don’t think BE will notice you

I did you even acknowledged the example of banning beards but then pretend like you weren’t given evidence.

I acknowledged it, by telling you to focus on proving cultural genocide in the first place. No, targeting bearded people that espouse violent Muslim interpretations of Islam in order to “correct” their beliefs to non violent interpretation does not constitute cultural genocide (even if wasnt fully informed on the targeting of ideologically violent bearded people. That maybe constituting racial profiling, but not cultural genocide)

No there aren’t.

There are like this source BE uses https://medium.com/@sunfeiyang/breaking-down-the-bbcs-visit-to-hotan-xinjiang-e284934a7aab

denying the Genocide

Nothing to deny. You haven’t proved it.

Another argument debunked another goalpost moved.

You haven’t addressed how you can see arabic everywhere, uyghur being an official language, and that there’s a shitton of mosques there and how it constitutes cultural genocide. If you culture is to stab people, then fuck your culture.

Far too much evidence to deny

Far little context taken into account

the person which just spent time reading your worthless links is now ‘not serious’.

No because if youd have looked at the “worthless” link you’d know that the primary sources BE provides are contextualized there already.

You have to prove cultural genocide is happening, not the ban of beards. Put your efford there.

Yes there are. The heavy military guarding around the area is what’s very noteworthy.

Heavily militarized synagogues in western countries means that it’s with the knowledge of “the genocide in palestine” and pretty obvious there’s something fishy going on. This is what I mean with gradual crackdown on religion. Sorry I cannot take you serious here.

Your link wants to reference article 14 which focuses on re-education but the preceding one doesn’t look great

What’s your approach on how to deal with people that go stabbing people around them and are supported by your geopolitical rival?

BadEmpanada A single testimony

I’m going to take you even less serious now and choose not to continue this conversation anymore.

Classifying parts of religion you don’t like because you have to “combat terrorism” and assimilate your colonized population… where have I heard that one before…

Condoning radical parts of religion because forbidding them reminds of the cultural genocide that’s happening at home

And making it look like a classic Chinese temple instead of an Uyghur one? Cultural preservation in full force.

Imagine the headlines if left alone and the collapsing building kills a worshiper

Wearing a long beard? Terrorism!

The less radical Imam not falling into the western narrative in the video you linked to says that no religious repression is happening and denies that beards are banned. BBC provides no evidence and just points at a random ripped paper and says beards are banned because it says so there lol Instead you link me a video showing me how it even contradicts yourself. How do you like the timestamp, where the youtuber “sees 4-5 mosques just walking around the city center” and concludes “you can’t say that there aren’t any mosques here”. Which he concludes the same thing again further down the video you posted. https://youtu.be/dHxzLogzqkU?feature=shared&t=2085

How do you not see the contradiction, that you say cultural genocide, yet you can see arabic written all over the buildings in your own provided link? Poor guy couldnt fly his drone over the mosque. Have you tried flying a drone over a synagogue in any western country?

At least read the context I provided you earlier https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/xinjiang

Cultural Genocide is not equal to full on literal israel style delete everyone you don’t like.

Not what I was saying. I was saying that the same voices that say a “cultural genocide” is happening in China, are saying no genocide (not cultural, but the actual extermination of people) is happening in Palestine.

Altering appearances of mosques to make them appear Chinese is an incredibly visually obvious step to slow-boiling the frog.

Or you know, altering the building in a way it doesn’t crash on its worshipers i.e. renovating.

Sinicization involves aligning religion to Chinese culture, and can also extend to adherence to the nation’s political ideology and rules.

Like any fucking religion has to adhere to their host country. Basically it means if your interpretation of Islam is some radical shit where go stab random ass people you can get lost like they did with the western backed ETIM (Based)

Also you seem to have a very narrow understanding of culture. You haven’t addressed even how the language and cultural practices aren’t banned. Slow boiling the frog my ass

Semantics are important with words like “imperialism”, “capitalism” and other isms.

Xinjiang so I linked him this damning compilation.

Xinjiang has 1 mosque per ~500 Muslims and one of the highest densities with 25k mosques total

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mosques_in_China

Your (western) article makes an “analysis of 2,312 mosques once featuring Islamic architecture shows that three-quarters have been modified or destroyed since 2018.”

Which 1) is not that many compares to the total amount. 2) Has an interest in focussing on “modified” (i.e. renovated) and destroyed ones to make the 3/4 figure 3) apparently has access to that data, but refuses to list the total amount of destroyed ones.

Also cultural genocide is when Uyghur is an official languages and also used publicly everywhere. Cultural genocide is when you can freely practice your religion everywhere. Cultural genocide is when all Muslim majority visited the region and had no complaints. Apparently genocide on Muslims is not happening in Palestine (said by the same voices that do say it’s happening in China)

You might want to consider the context a bit (also with western sources): https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/xinjiang

Your statement about China not having a financialist capital class seemed slightly out of touch so I provided you with examples of some Chinese capital class

I seems you have no clue what the difference between an industrial capitalist and a finacial capitalist is, because you provided not a example of finacial capitalists existing. You just showed me an example of a industrial/realestate capitalist eating shit. Not so much in cahoots after all then ,right? Not like the CPC declared the “3 red lines” in order to mitigate the bubble forming, not like there’s a 95% homeowner ship rate in china already and it’s just speculators eating shit, not like Asianometry is a very informed lib viewing the deliberate crash from a liberal perspective, right?

China’s banks are nationalized. When was theast time you heare about Jack Ma, who wanted to ascend to be a financial capitalist by circumventing finance laws with ANT pay?

Communism is when not billionaires. The more Billionaires you have to less communism it is.

See, what the CPC is doing is not communism. It’s market socialism, or SWCC to be more accurate, which is not without it’s contradictions. Communism cannot exist when Capitalism and Imperialism exists.

When you write stuff like:

instead of greed being innate to humans

Muh human nature

Or

As for the imperialism I only hear the same argument as for Western imperialism: someone drew lines on a map 200 years ago

I know for a fact you haven’t read theory and don’t want to be talking to you until you haven’t done your homework.

Read more theory otherwise you sound like a kid like you do now.

China most definitely has billionaires in cahoots with the government

Imperialism is when billionaires. The more billionaires you have the imperialister it is

Also https://redsails.org/china-has-billionaires/

I’ve had two discussions with users about the Uyghur camps which were not able to address the base of my concerns.

Sounds like you were concern trolling, because the burden of proof is on the accuser

You might wanna work on your reading comprehension if that is what you get from Engels text

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm

Cope lol

their support for other imperialist superpowers like Russia and China

I wonder what definition of imperialism you’re using. China doesn’t have a financial capitalist class which influences it’s government to seek foreign markets (i.e. overthrow foreign governments to privatize their state assets for the financial capitalist class to buy up)

Because if America bad Russia and China good is an easy train of thought.

It may seem to lib outside observers like that

But users there moreso question whether certain atrocities happened. They’re not saying ‘yeah the CCP is currently Genociding Uyghurs in concentration camps. but you have to vote for Xi Jingping to save Democracy’.

Tell me you haven’t lurked there without having told me you having lurked there and talking out of your ass.

This isn’t accurate, they were very active in brigandine other federations, hitting random threads on .world for instance with hundreds of reply comments drowning out anything that may be a tiny bit critical of china or Russia. Or pro west.

Have you considered that their users were just browsing the front page and what you’re describing is just the nature of lemmy and how federation works?

There wereultiple cross-posts daily pointing to specific threads posted on hexbear to organize brigading.

You’re likely referring to the_dunk_tank which is a community that encourages bullying homophobia, transphobia, fascists and liberale (pretty based imo)

You can’t just make things binary. If I say billionaires are either taxed or not or say that socialism/happiness either exists or not and there’s no point quantifying or comparing it, you’d certainly disagree.

I’d certainly agree. You can’t quantify “Authority”. You can quantify billionairs (one can have more billions than another). You can’t quantify “being taxed”, you can however quantify the taxed amount. Also you can’t quantify “socialism”.

“the rejection of political plurality, the use of strong central power to preserve the political status quo, and reductions in democracy, separation of powers, civil liberties, and the rule of law.”

You can’t quantify these either.

Is the government controlled by the workers? Certainly not.

That’s a very abstract question. When one in 15 is a CPC member the, PRCs government represent workers interests? Certainly.

Yeah, they control all the finance. No, I don’t see how that means the workers are getting more of or closer to getting the means of production.

Not what I’m saying? I gave you examples on how the state represents workers interests.

Unions have nearly no power.

Good. They can be used as a wedge against the workers state as we saw in the Western toppling of the SU.

The third part of that law you sent, worker’s representatives, just seems like extending the ruling elite’s reach further.

How so?

Not to mention that the housing bubble hasn’t stopped.

Then you’re not following news. The fact that western media is screeching about how CNs real estate market crashed says otherwise.

Saying that every state is authoritarian is missing the point. When we say that a state is authoritarian, we mean that relatively, the people are much more oppressed by the elite.

Sorry I disagree with trying to quantify “authority” in order to put in relation. It’s becomes meaningless. Authority either exists or doesn’t, it’s a binary.

Even anarchists only oppose hierarchical authority.

As I’m reading the link I see that the author compares Bakunins understaning of authority, to that of Engels. The Author’s interpretation of Engel’s text is, that it argues against anarchists, when in fact it argues against “anti-authoritarians” and therebay misunderstands it significantly lol (Ctrl+F “anarchist” yourself https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/10/authority.htm). The author of your link further highlights their misunderstanding in the section “Does organisation imply the end of liberty?” and says "Engels argument proves too much. As every form of joint activity involves agreement and “subordination,” then life itself becomes “authoritarian.” Yes, Engels indeed proves that “authoritarian” is a meaningless term and authority can have different forms.Engels doesn’t even say anything about wether organization ends liberty. Engels acturally argues that “authorty” transforms. “If we took Engels’ argument seriously then we would have to conclude that living makes freedom impossible!” That’s not even what Engel’s is saying in the text.

Engel’s defintion of authority (“Authority, in the sense in which the word is used here, means: the imposition of the will of another upon ours; on the other hand, authority presupposes subordination. […]” is quite elegant. Organization Engel’s defines as “combined action”. Engels further asks the abstract question whether organization [combined action] is possible without authority [the imposition of the will of another].

In your link the author writes “However, Engels is simply confusing two different things, authority and agreement.” and literally falls into “These gentlemen think that when they have changed the names of things they have changed the things themselves.” Further down your author writes: “For a given task, co-operation and joint activity may be required by its very nature.” and uses and example of the organization of train networks. (Guess what example Engels used to showcase how authority is transformed?)

Read Engels yourself if you don’t believe me. There’s a qualitative difference between reading about Marx, Engels, Stalin, Lenin, Mao and reading them.

But are they? Yes, China has lifted a ton of people out of poverty, but as long as most employees don’t own the means of production, they are being oppressed,

Yes they are. Hardly seems oppressive, when Harvad’s Long-term survey reveals Chinese government satisfaction

and the hands of the means of production don’t seem to have been transferring.

Yes it is. The fact that you have the state tightly regulate capitalism and outright forbidding the formation of a financial capitalist class (China’s banks are public. Find out how Jack Ma is doing after they tried to ascend to financial capitalist by creating ANT pay), have a state that works in the interest of the majority (Stopping the Real Estate Bubble and make housing affordable, while with a 95% homeownership rate; Massive Public transport; Renweable engergies, etc.) and also encourages worker coops (e.g. Huawei) and China’s Revised Company Law looks very promising (Keep in mind it’s the economist, but damn even that makes it sound so good https://archive.md/VIEPf ).