This is not good. I don’t get how people still have good faith in big business. Here’s what’s going to happen, we will be moving towards a pay for service WITH ads. And data mining.
It’s not one or the other here. People somehow think it’s either a) “pay for the service” OR b) “have your personal data raped and parcelled out to the highest bidder.” It’s not. It’s not either a or b, it’s either b or a AND b.
So I have to pay to be tracked?
And you know once everyone acclimates to the new pricing, it’s going to be “hey we are adding a new plan for $9 that has ads and all the telemetry. Oh, we are also raising the rates.”
The real problem is the entire company is rotten. I don’t understand why people think a pay wall won’t make that the case.
Good to note that this isn't even hypothetical, it literally happened with cable. First it was ad-funded, then you paid to get rid of ads, then you paid exorbitant prices to get fed ads, and the final evolution was being required to pay $100+ for bundles including channels you'd never use to get at the one you would. It's already happening to streaming services too, which have started to bundle.
I don't think the arguments made by you and OP are mutually exclusive. Facebook is a rotten company and we shouldn't even be using their website, let alone paying them for the privilege. But Websites aren't free to operate, Ads are toxic, and we shouldn't let Ads be the method by which Websites pay their costs.
If OP weren't posting their argument in a thread about Facebook, but Lemmy instead for example, I think your read might be different. Their last sentence, to me, indicates that they agree with you.
Yeah if you read more down the pipe, we aren’t in disagreement, fundamentally.
I just don’t think Meta is the entity to break free from the “why can’t everything on the internet be free when I just bought a $800 phone?!?” paradigm.
And I don’t trust them to just basically take what we have now, and sell it to us. Which, come on, you know that’s exactly what they’ll do.
TV powerhouses feared the internet would make their bloated cable packages obsolete. Look at them now. The internet has a bevy of streaming services. Cable packages 2.0.
To be clear: When I say "This is good", I don't mean that this makes Facebook a good service. You're 100% right about Facebook's trajectory here.
My hope lies in improving consumer expectations, and tech entrepreneurs' estimation of those expectations. For about 20 years, there's been a universal assumption that users will never pay for a website, ever. They'll pay with their privacy and attention all day long, but their wallet? Not gonna happen.
If this proves that there are users who will pay with their wallet instead of their soul, then it paves a way for people who are interested in making ethical services – people who may have been discouraged in the past because they were told that the only way to keep the lights on was to round up their users and feed them to a hungry pack of advertisers.
Customer expectations will improve once companies are brought in line and you know a) what you’re paying for and getting for your money and b) personal information is safe and your usage patterns are not being monetized or worse, sold to some shady third party. Letting the public simply acquiesce to the state of things rather than making things better is insanity. Tech companies have dictated the rules and it’s been basically a free for all to get your data. As much if it as possible. That’s why “free” services even exist. That’s the problem here. That all these dark patterns just became well, patterns.
Adding price tags to things doesn’t inherently make them better, I don’t at all see this warped capitalistic point of view.
With regards to Fb, it’s the same shitty service you use now. The same data mining and telemetry. The same shitty people take your money and make deals with other shitty people. But it now costs $12 so it’s good? You’re going to have to explain that to me like I’m 5.
Charging for things isn’t the right way go. Making things people would pay for is a much better route.
I made space for us both to be right here, cuz you pointed out a way for my original comment to be misinterpreted and I agreed with your thoughts on that misinterpretation.
This is not good. I don’t get how people still have good faith in big business. Here’s what’s going to happen, we will be moving towards a pay for service WITH ads. And data mining.
It’s not one or the other here. People somehow think it’s either a) “pay for the service” OR b) “have your personal data raped and parcelled out to the highest bidder.” It’s not. It’s not either a or b, it’s either b or a AND b.
So I have to pay to be tracked?
And you know once everyone acclimates to the new pricing, it’s going to be “hey we are adding a new plan for $9 that has ads and all the telemetry. Oh, we are also raising the rates.”
The real problem is the entire company is rotten. I don’t understand why people think a pay wall won’t make that the case.
Good to note that this isn't even hypothetical, it literally happened with cable. First it was ad-funded, then you paid to get rid of ads, then you paid exorbitant prices to get fed ads, and the final evolution was being required to pay $100+ for bundles including channels you'd never use to get at the one you would. It's already happening to streaming services too, which have started to bundle.
I don’t understand why more people just can see this? To me it’s connect the dots. Paint by numbers.
Big business is your enemy. I don’t know why folks still have faith in such a fucked up system that’s got a proven track record of being shit.
I don't think the arguments made by you and OP are mutually exclusive. Facebook is a rotten company and we shouldn't even be using their website, let alone paying them for the privilege. But Websites aren't free to operate, Ads are toxic, and we shouldn't let Ads be the method by which Websites pay their costs.
If OP weren't posting their argument in a thread about Facebook, but Lemmy instead for example, I think your read might be different. Their last sentence, to me, indicates that they agree with you.
Yeah if you read more down the pipe, we aren’t in disagreement, fundamentally.
I just don’t think Meta is the entity to break free from the “why can’t everything on the internet be free when I just bought a $800 phone?!?” paradigm.
And I don’t trust them to just basically take what we have now, and sell it to us. Which, come on, you know that’s exactly what they’ll do.
TV powerhouses feared the internet would make their bloated cable packages obsolete. Look at them now. The internet has a bevy of streaming services. Cable packages 2.0.
Capitalism is getting worse, not better.
To be clear: When I say "This is good", I don't mean that this makes Facebook a good service. You're 100% right about Facebook's trajectory here.
My hope lies in improving consumer expectations, and tech entrepreneurs' estimation of those expectations. For about 20 years, there's been a universal assumption that users will never pay for a website, ever. They'll pay with their privacy and attention all day long, but their wallet? Not gonna happen.
If this proves that there are users who will pay with their wallet instead of their soul, then it paves a way for people who are interested in making ethical services – people who may have been discouraged in the past because they were told that the only way to keep the lights on was to round up their users and feed them to a hungry pack of advertisers.
You’re working on the wrong end.
Customer expectations will improve once companies are brought in line and you know a) what you’re paying for and getting for your money and b) personal information is safe and your usage patterns are not being monetized or worse, sold to some shady third party. Letting the public simply acquiesce to the state of things rather than making things better is insanity. Tech companies have dictated the rules and it’s been basically a free for all to get your data. As much if it as possible. That’s why “free” services even exist. That’s the problem here. That all these dark patterns just became well, patterns.
Adding price tags to things doesn’t inherently make them better, I don’t at all see this warped capitalistic point of view.
With regards to Fb, it’s the same shitty service you use now. The same data mining and telemetry. The same shitty people take your money and make deals with other shitty people. But it now costs $12 so it’s good? You’re going to have to explain that to me like I’m 5.
Charging for things isn’t the right way go. Making things people would pay for is a much better route.
Look.
I made space for us both to be right here, cuz you pointed out a way for my original comment to be misinterpreted and I agreed with your thoughts on that misinterpretation.
But you clearly just want to fight now.