Request for Mozilla Position on an Emerging Web Specification Specification Title: Web Environment Integrity API Specification or proposal URL (if available): https://rupertbenwiser.github.io/Web-E...
They have already opposed it, and your speculation based on your dislike of their CEO probably isn’t helpful. It’s against the open web and Mozilla has no incentive to implement this. It’s something only an ad company would be keen on.
It is based on them being wholly funded by Google, I think it is helpful to point that out when we are talking about them biting the hand that feeds them. If Google does in fact force this upon you to use their services then Google search will be part of that and Google search is where Mozilla makes a vast majority of its funding.
Right now they make money from google for default search because they pay the most. Previously they went Yahoo and could go bing. They did not implement web manifest v3, so you’re insinuation isn’t based in fact. Plus, this has nothing to do with search, it is to do with after search when on a website.
If Google is pushing a feature to secure higher ad revenue they’re obviously going to implement it on their own services such as search. As for Bing Microsoft have implemented Manifest v3 in Edge and it’s unlikely they will skip out on Web Integrity. Time will tell but it’s likely Firefox will be pushed into supporting it.
I don’t think MS implemented it. It’s chromium, they just took the code base. Some browsers actively removed it, but when you’re based on chromium, you start with the code that google gives you.
MS taking a codebase and doing nothing with it logically makes no sense to imply that Firefox will purposely resource and write code contrary to web freedoms.
Whether they implement in web search is speculation, they’d be purposefully downranking companies in search for not implementing something that cost them revenue excluding their customers. It would be google vs companies, and it wouldn’t be pretty.
Either way, state your position. Are you suggesting people should roll over and take it, or move to Firefox, because all this side debate is doing nothing useful.
Whether they implement in web search is speculation
Sorry if it wasn’t clear from my original comment but yes this is speculation for the future.
Are you suggesting people should roll over and take it
I’m suggesting people aren’t going to be given the choice if this is actually pushed through to the full extent that Google is hoping. Fighting against it is obviously the right move but it doesn’t hurt to imagine a future where that fighting has no meaningful effect.
because all this side debate is doing nothing useful.
Not all discussions are a debate, and these discussions need to be had.
I use waterfox currently. If this takes off, I will browser shop until I find a browser that doesn’t implement it. If i come across any sites that don’t work, well, I just won’t use their sites anymore.
the site i mostly use is kbin and other open source/privacy respecting sties, and I doubt ernest would implement WEI on this site. Any other sites, I can do without. they don’t want my viewing? fuck them.
I don’t think Firefox’s position is unreasonable here. Ultimately, the old way of distributing copy-write content wasn’t going to work. Companies that had right to something, couldn’t easily distribute it without a large risk of piracy and a tanking of revenues. Having a sandbox around proprietary shite made sense and protected users privacy while also enabling the content providers to maintain their asset.
Removing ad blocks is a wholly different ball game. Google obviously has a stake in it because YT is funded by ads. Maybe some ad driven content providers also, but subscription driven services don’t have the same need for that. It does seem an unholy alliance between content providers and big tech has been formed and it could be something at play again.
I actually agree and appreciate your response. I was just poking a little fun at the “impossible” there but Firefox absolutely has been an invaluable voice for neticens all over the world.
Mozilla try not to be based challenge (impossible)
I fear Mozilla will oppose it right up until they implement it, they know who butters their bread and their CEO has a hunger for loafs.
They have already opposed it, and your speculation based on your dislike of their CEO probably isn’t helpful. It’s against the open web and Mozilla has no incentive to implement this. It’s something only an ad company would be keen on.
It is based on them being wholly funded by Google, I think it is helpful to point that out when we are talking about them biting the hand that feeds them. If Google does in fact force this upon you to use their services then Google search will be part of that and Google search is where Mozilla makes a vast majority of its funding.
Right now they make money from google for default search because they pay the most. Previously they went Yahoo and could go bing. They did not implement web manifest v3, so you’re insinuation isn’t based in fact. Plus, this has nothing to do with search, it is to do with after search when on a website.
If Google is pushing a feature to secure higher ad revenue they’re obviously going to implement it on their own services such as search. As for Bing Microsoft have implemented Manifest v3 in Edge and it’s unlikely they will skip out on Web Integrity. Time will tell but it’s likely Firefox will be pushed into supporting it.
I don’t think MS implemented it. It’s chromium, they just took the code base. Some browsers actively removed it, but when you’re based on chromium, you start with the code that google gives you.
MS taking a codebase and doing nothing with it logically makes no sense to imply that Firefox will purposely resource and write code contrary to web freedoms.
Whether they implement in web search is speculation, they’d be purposefully downranking companies in search for not implementing something that cost them revenue excluding their customers. It would be google vs companies, and it wouldn’t be pretty.
Either way, state your position. Are you suggesting people should roll over and take it, or move to Firefox, because all this side debate is doing nothing useful.
Their decision is detailed here: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/extensions-chromium/developer-guide/manifest-v3
Sorry if it wasn’t clear from my original comment but yes this is speculation for the future.
I’m suggesting people aren’t going to be given the choice if this is actually pushed through to the full extent that Google is hoping. Fighting against it is obviously the right move but it doesn’t hurt to imagine a future where that fighting has no meaningful effect.
Not all discussions are a debate, and these discussions need to be had.
I use waterfox currently. If this takes off, I will browser shop until I find a browser that doesn’t implement it. If i come across any sites that don’t work, well, I just won’t use their sites anymore.
And when all the sites stop working?
the site i mostly use is kbin and other open source/privacy respecting sties, and I doubt ernest would implement WEI on this site. Any other sites, I can do without. they don’t want my viewing? fuck them.
Well if they don’t cave and stick with it the CEO can butter my loafs all they want.
Although a comment close below puts a little dent into that ^^
https://github.com/mozilla/> standards-positions/issues/852#issuecomment-1649928726
I don’t think Firefox’s position is unreasonable here. Ultimately, the old way of distributing copy-write content wasn’t going to work. Companies that had right to something, couldn’t easily distribute it without a large risk of piracy and a tanking of revenues. Having a sandbox around proprietary shite made sense and protected users privacy while also enabling the content providers to maintain their asset.
Removing ad blocks is a wholly different ball game. Google obviously has a stake in it because YT is funded by ads. Maybe some ad driven content providers also, but subscription driven services don’t have the same need for that. It does seem an unholy alliance between content providers and big tech has been formed and it could be something at play again.
I actually agree and appreciate your response. I was just poking a little fun at the “impossible” there but Firefox absolutely has been an invaluable voice for neticens all over the world.